Spread firefox? How about Spread IE 6.0 Service Pack 2!
Sorry SpreadFirefox. Firefox 1.0 just isn’t a substantially better product than Microsoft IE6.0, which shipped three years ago.
From the Firefox main page, here is its feature list:
Popup Blocking
Microsoft released a service pack to update IE with popup blocking.
Tabbed Browsing
Present in a feature called “taskbar grouping” in Windows XP. More flexible than just for IE, though. You can use the tabbed motif for all your applications with taskbar grouping, not just the browser.
Privacy and Security
Service Pack 2 added numerous improvements to the Internet Explorer security model. And, for all the complaining about Internet Explorer’s security bugs, Firefox is not exempt.Microsoft has had 44 security advisories in 20 months, for an average of 2.2 advisories per month, according to Secunia. Firefox has had 14 advisories in 6 months, for an average of 2.3 advisories per month. These figures are nearly identical–IE is no less secure.
Finally, compare the libPNG exploit with the GDI+ problem. They’re two sides of the same coin: the core windows/linux image handling libraries, used everywhere in both operating systems and products, including the web browsers, were vulnerable to exploit. I find this parallelism interesting-it implies that the similarities between both vendor’s security are greater than their differences. In the future, we’re going to see more Firefox security flaws paired with IE’s.
Smarter Search
See this knowledgebase article about configuring the default search behavior. IE has had automatic searching built into it for ages…
Live Bookmarks
RSS 2.0 wasn’t in extensive use when IE6 came out: this is a feature not present. However, this is a subset of the functionality of a larger class of programs called “RSS readers.” I don’t know if it is appropriate for a browser to manage RSS subscription.
Hassle-Free Downloading
The Firefox website is actually spreading deceptive marketing spin. Read, “Fewer prompts mean files download quicker.” Fewer prompts do NOT mean faster downloads. And how more “hassle-free” can you get than direct shell integration?
Fits Like a Glove
“Firefox has all the functions you’re used to - Bookmarks, History, Full Screen, Text Zooming,” the functions you first saw in Internet Explorer 6, three years ago.
S, M, L or XL-You Choose
Microsoft’s brower can add new toolbars, buttons, and extensions. Here’s a basic how-to for some of the easier things. SP2 also adds an easier way to manage add ons, although the ability to extend IE existed before Service Pack 2.
Setup’s a Snap
With Internet Explorer, there’s no setup required. You just have it, with your Windows installation!
A Developer’s Best Friend
IE6.0 has its own error checking, javascript console, and additional developer tools.
But this is just a feature comparison. I was personally curious about how they perform, head to head, so I wrote a testcase in C# to test their startup time. On my P4-M 1700, Firefox takes an average of 2.44 seconds to start. Internet Explorer 6.0 starts in just 1.17 seconds! Internet Explorer starts at least twice as fast as Firefox.
Loading up the latest Google News (10/4/2004) takes 0.5448 seconds in Firefox, but only 0.4887 seconds in the latest version of Internet Explorer. The rending time in IE 6.0 is 10.3% faster than in Firefox. Google News is 94kb of HTML with inline CSS, and 51kb of pictures, a good example of a high profile, high payload site.
Firefox took 19656kb of RAM on loading Google News, while Internet Explorer filled 17428kb, a memory footprint 2.23 megabytes smaller than Firefox. This is 11.3% better, a factor that becomes more important the older the computer you have.
In short, Internet Explorer 6.0 is a fast, modern, low-profile, standards-compliant, and feature rich browser, that is comparable on all terms to Firefox. It’s free with Microsoft Windows. So, unless you have an agenda against Microsoft, there are still no compelling reasons to switch to Firefox. Keep your IE–it’s good enough. (This post has been transferred from my old site to the new blog)
This entry was posted on Monday, October 4th, 2004 at 5:24 pm and is tagged with default search behavior, internet explorer security, microsoft ie6, securityservice, security bugs, deceptive marketing, service pack 2, knowledgebase article, spreadfirefox, security model, security flaws, feature list, security advisories, parallelism, web browsers, motif, firefox, exploit, subset, hassle. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback.
on October 26th, 2004 at 5:37 pm
First of all, Taskbar Grouping is NOT even REMOTELY the same as tabbed browsing. With tabbed browsing you can open several windows, say one for each task you are working on, and open several tabs with information on each task - it is extremely efficiant and effective. Taskbar grouping just doesnt cut it.
It’s not fair for you to read off the feature list and say “IE had this 6 years ago”. Firefox has been under development for not much more than a year now and isnt even at a final release yet. And of course they are going to list “obvious” features on the site - that’s what most users want to see!
Regarding RSS - RSS is now probabaly the top use for XML on the web today. The Firefox developers saw this and added addional support basic but usefull support for it, while microsoft has just sat on their asses not adding any new features.
The last thing I will comment on is installation where you totally missed the point. Firefox is as easy to install as possible for a program that Microsoft didnt bundle with the operating system.
on October 26th, 2004 at 5:38 pm
I’m curious to know if you actually USED Firefox day to day rather than trying it just to critisize it?
Popup Blocking: I have used IE6 SP2, and I have browsed various websites with it. The popup blocker works in some instances, but actually failed to stop quite a few. With Firefox, I haven’t had one SINGLE popup. EVER.
Tabbed Browsing: It’s very nice that Windows XP has taskbar grouping, but taskbar grouping is nothing like tabbed browsing. Taskbar grouping keeps the taskbar somewhat clean when running multiple applications. Tabbed browsing lets you have various websites open in one window all accessible within ONE click. No clicking on arrows and choosing from TRUNCATED menus. Absolutely no comparison.
Privacy and Security: I… I’m not even going to go into this one. IE6 SP2, while more secure, still falls victim to the so called “enhancements” and browser hijackings.
Live Bookmarks: You’re making excuses. The fact is, Firefox has it, IE doesn’t. Period.
Hassle-Free Downloading: Did you actually try playing with the download manager? Obviously not. You can make things substantially faster with some simple configuration with the options window. Choose what to do with different filetypes, or have files automatically save into a folder, no questions asked. IE’s download management is, and always has been clunky.
Fits Like a Glove: I don’t think they were really trying to emphasize new features here… Just the things that people want.
Setup’s a Snap: IE does come with Windows. It comes with Windows, and you can’t get rid of it no matter what you do. Using Windows Update to do what should take seconds is pointless, much like MSI. Why go through that whole process when you can just run one single file in a couple of seconds?
A Developer’s Best Friend: Does IE have a DOM browser? Extensions that allow you to disable images, CSS, and other things? The ability to quickly switch stylesheets? No, no, no, no, no… Oh, I lost count there.
On my computer, Firefox is faster, both in loading, and browsing, and I didn’t need to write an application to know that. Even if you have to wait a single additional second, the features are worth it.
Firefox is a modern browser. You’re talking about 2 megabytes from a beta web browser to something that’s been around for 7 or 8 years now. If 2 megabytes is more than your computer can chew on, maybe try LYNX?
How can you even try to call IE standards compliant? Have you read any design blogs? Have you done any CSS design at all? IE is standards compliant to standards that are years old. I recently had a run-in with “min-width” and “max-width”. That’s just an example that affected my design recently.
IE is feature rich? IE has had the same basic features forever, and there’s no hope of anything new ever entering the picture.
I don’t speak for the SpreadFirefox movement, but I sure haven’t seen any anti-Microsoft propeganda. They speak facts. If you don’t like it, don’t read it, and don’t switch.
There are many compelling reasons to switch to Firefox, and unless you have your head up your ***, you’ll see them quite clearly.
on October 26th, 2004 at 5:39 pm
I think your opening claim is disingenious at best. Your list of features contains numerous references to service pack 2, which was released a month and a half ago, a far cry from your claim of three years. The IE released then clearly didn’t have those features.
Your information regarding customization is laughable - an article regarding changing the homepage hardly compares to the numerous extensions Firefox offers. Moreover, the point is that it OFFERS them - it allows the users the choice to customize their browser as they see fit, and aren’t saddled with a myriad of features they have no interest in using.
The link regarding security is similarly misleading - reading the article indicates that IE was equally vulnerable to a similar exploit. Moreover, the number of exploits IE is vulnerable to is exponentially more than Mozilla or Firefox, and the time taken to fix these exploits doesn’t compare.
I think there are SEVERAL compelling reasons to switch, but more importantly, I’d really like to see people who sling accusations of deceptive marketing be a little bit more honest in their own critiques.
on October 26th, 2004 at 5:39 pm
You’re obviously a close-minded individual who knows nothing of web standards. Of course it starts faster, it’s already loaded most of the libraries used!
That’s in no way a comparison. How many people will sit there loading a browser and say “Well that’s it! IE is better because it loads faster!”? I know, I know - it’s the best sort of benchmark, it’s for the people who see loading a browser continuously beneficial over actually using it.
on October 26th, 2004 at 5:40 pm
I think the fact that Firefox automatically blocks pop-ups without the Google toolbar, the fact that it automatically keeps malware from being installed on my computer and the fact that I can look at JPEGs without being backdoored is enough to make me switch. But I switched at v0.7. I’ve never been happier.
I’m glad I dumped IE on my PC and on the 25+ in my lab.
on October 26th, 2004 at 5:41 pm
What about all the spieware that only runs in IE? What about all the ******* toolbars that only work in IE! lol you forgot a lot.
on October 26th, 2004 at 5:42 pm
Author’s note: All of the original, top level comments on the old blog that had subjectively enough non-anonymous information in them have been moved over.
on October 27th, 2004 at 3:40 pm
IE Is Insecure.
IE Is Proprietary.
IE Is Feature Frozen.
IE Will not be released independent of the OS.
IE Support Non Standard HTML/CSS.
IE Kills the Web.
IE Is bad. Very bad.
on October 28th, 2004 at 2:09 pm
ell oh ell. Look at all the angry Firefox users. I use Firefox, but if you are happy with IE, then congrats. I used IE for five or six years, tried Mozilla once, and was thoroughly unhappy.
Gave Firefox a try finally, and after a bit, got hooked. And whenever someone complains about IE, I tell them to try out Firefox. My roommate is thoroughly impressed. But again, if someone is happy with IE, c’est la vie.
It’s similar to all of my Mac friends who constantly try to convert me. Get off my back.
on October 30th, 2004 at 10:21 am
Listen $&$ microsoft emplyer keep your stupid IE but stop saying lies about firefox OK?
on November 3rd, 2004 at 8:14 pm
Firefox prevents tracking cookies,spyware,toolbars and loads way faster than Internet **** explorer and doesnt crash when its used like IE does to me all the time! Hands down if you use IE and are happy updating every day because its such a POS,then go ahead and use it. Firefox and Thunderbird rock!
on November 4th, 2004 at 4:11 am
“Privacy and SecurityService Pack 2″ & “Microsoft has had 44 security advisories in 20 months…:”
Lol. .. This must be a joke!! If Microsoft made a decent browser (in your dreams) in the first place, they wouldn’t have needed all those security advisories and fixes. Guys, IE is an inferior product. IE is just unsecure bloatware anyways.
on November 4th, 2004 at 5:13 am
Feuer Frei, I must comment, really. You write,
I write, “If Firefox made a decent browser, they wouldn’t have 2.3 advisories per month.” As for your other claim,
I write, “Firefox took 11.3% more RAM than Internet Explorer.” Did you bother to read the article?
on November 4th, 2004 at 7:22 pm
Where can I find the source of this ‘IE’ program so I can compile and install it?
on November 5th, 2004 at 8:11 am
It would be nice to point out that these features like the taskbar grouping and the security are in win xp, which is dangerously insecure at best, even with sp2. I use 98se which is more compatible with different apps, and almost impenetrable with a NAT, compared to xp with is constantly being exploited. I have only ever had two viruses on my machine and only one actually did something. As such, most these “features” are not available for me.
However, I am forced to use IE at my TAFE College, and it cannot compare. the home page takes 20+ seconds to load and it is unusable during that time. the autosearch is set on but never works. popup blocking also never works. Not to mention that I on average have to reset and reload all my pages 9+ times an hour, due to “Internet Explorer has encountered an error and must close” I have spoken to the teachers, tech support, and administration, and they have said they would use anything but IE. I can’t blame them.
I’d just stick to using 98 with firefox. It has everthing I need, is more secure, and does load much faster than IE, and I am on a p3-450
on November 9th, 2004 at 12:44 am
Wow! IE is better and faster than Firefox! Could you give me instructions on how to install it on my Linux box.
:p
on November 10th, 2004 at 12:17 pm
IE is SO full of CRITICAL unpatched security holes:
secunia.com/product/11/#advisories
In my experience, IE is the main vector by which adware/spyware gets on to people’s computers. Using FireFox is the single most effective thing people can do to avoid adware/spyware.
on November 11th, 2004 at 9:53 pm
IE offers extensions. Ok, to reword that: Numerous developers are offering extensions for IE. There might be a difference, but it’s not vast, basically with FF you can access the extensions within the browser while on IE you have to search for them. But IE extensions are better. Ever heard of Avant Browser, NetCaptor or Maxthon(MyIE)? Each of these adds about as many features as 100 Firefox (as well as the tabbed browsing everyone wants from IE!) extensions in just one simple installation. No longer will you have to look painfully for the right extension for you which is also compatible with your version of Firefox. And guess what? None of these IE extensions are as slow as Firefox, according to my benchmarks which can be found here: www.web-realm.com/?page=articles_-_firefox . Might be a little inaccurate and outdated but they still display the basic ratios.
As for tabbed browsing, yes, it’s better than Task Grouping (annoying ****), but read the above paragraph to find out how to get tabbed browsing for IE.
About viruses and spyware, I don’t know what you guys are talking about, because I never had any spyware because of IE (and definitely not viruses). But assuming your claims are correct, who cares? Every internet user knows about spyware and those who don’t learn about it after their first encounter (when they ask a friend who knows how to remove it). Therefore, internet users do regular spyware scans, regardless of browser. Nowadays half the programs you can download contain spyware (ok, an exaggeration, but chances are, you’ve downloaded one before).
As for using it on Linux, I guess Linux users can stick to Firefox. It’s actually good because it will encourage devs to code for both browsers since they’ll know that about 10% could be using Firefox. As for Windows users… don’t really see a reason to ‘dump IE’.
on November 12th, 2004 at 1:15 pm
MyIE2, NetCaptor, etc are all just layover programs (essentially acting like skins do on WinAMP). They all use the IE core and thus, are vunerable to every single security flaw that IE is. Tabbed browsing is a good enough reason to dump IE for Firefox. I use both browsers. Each has its uses.
on November 14th, 2004 at 4:40 pm
You are so wrong its not even funny. First, you said IE works well with standards. Thats bs, ask people over at the w3c. Tabbed browsing is very diferent than grouping in taskbar. Also, your results are obviosly wrong, compare what loaded in ie as to firefox, total up explorer.exe and iexplore.exe and the dll loading mshtml thing. Then youll get better results.
Also, what about people with earlyier version of windows? They can’t even get SP2. So then whats the point of spreading it.
on November 16th, 2004 at 11:43 am
Hi, just a comment on security.
Firefox doesn’t even think about download ActiveX binaries, which IE does with standard settings. Yes you get a dialog box, but *ordinary people* have a tick cklicking OK and not Cancel. Besides, they don’t even understand the question even though it is phrased in their mother tounge. They just want to get to the new page as quick as possible, and clicking OK gets them there, together with virus, spam bots, spyware, modem kidnappers, advertising, you name it. Firefox is immune and keeps your computer immune, too.
on November 16th, 2004 at 6:02 pm
Yeah, LOL. IE is as far away from being standards-compliant as a software application could get. Microsoft and AOL write there own standards, and then get pissed when the world gives them the finger - like with ‘Sender IDs.’
There is one feature that will completely up-end the countenance of the internet if Firefox becomes widely used. PNG alpha channel support. Right now, I have to cram alpha-enabled PNGs through ridiculous ActiveX filters to get them to show in IE - and they’re still not right. Not to mention I have to exert extra load on my server and burn up extra CPU clock cycles to figure out what browser the user is using every time they visit the site.
on November 16th, 2004 at 8:20 pm
Everyone has their own opinion on the usability factors, but I’ll address this comment in particular:
I am benchmarking the browsers against each other. Loading iexplore.exe will load all of its required components, including the mshtml rendering DLLs, etc, before starting the browser. These times are already factored into the analysis.
Explorer.exe is unrelated.
Any effects of windows preloading its own DLLs are amortized over 40 runs. Those do not affect the benchmark either.
on November 19th, 2004 at 6:22 am
explorer.exe is related as xp uses IE as a file…explorer, and yes I am adding another comment that “the taskbar grouping feature of xp is not the same as tabbed browsing”, its better and you get to see the title of each window with out having to click on the taskbar icon first.
on November 19th, 2004 at 6:27 am
No, it’s not related to this article. Iexplore.exe is a dependency of explorer.exe, not the other way around. I’m testing and analysing Iexplore, not software that uses it as a component.
on November 19th, 2004 at 7:13 am
Try this:
- Close all instances of Internet Explorer.
- Open up a Windows Explorer instance (My Computer or My Documents will do)
- Type a web address into the address bar
- Ctrl-Alt-Del and look for “iexplore.exe” in the list of running applications (you won’t find it)
- Go back to the web site you conjured up… click Help -> About Internet Explorer
- Marvel at Internet Explorer’s footprint of 0.00 MB of RAM
I spend a lot of time cleaning computers infested with viruses and spyware. 9 times out of 10 the user tells me all they do is surf the internet and check their e-mail on Hotmail or AOL. I tell them that if they don’t want to have to hire me for my services again in a month, they should stop using IE. I don’t get any repeat business from people who make the switch.
I’m also a web designer, and anyone says that IE is standards complaint is simply ignorant. min-width is a CSS2 tag. CSS2 was finalized in 1998. Doesn’t work in IE. Try using a alpha-transparent PNG image in IE. You can’t. PNG 1.0 was finalized in 1997.
IE 6.0 was lacking in security, standards compliance and features the day it came out.
on February 26th, 2005 at 5:15 pm
Why cant IE 6.0 display colors right?
I’ve already gave up on IE to display transparent bg png right (because alpha filtering doesnt really work…). Okay I made my pngs to display with the same background as my html … well it did not… until that thing is not solved i would not recommend ie to anyone…
Before anyone would say anything about it i have tried the color thing with loads of applications and only ie displays it wrong…
on May 9th, 2005 at 11:13 am
Acid2 …
webstandards.org/act/acid2/
on May 14th, 2005 at 5:19 am
Elliot Back wrote:
Good comment, but have you even noticed that Internet Explorer has been around for a lot longer than Firefox? Firefox is in it’s early stages so of course it will have quite a few advisories discovered. Of course the figures seem identical, but as I’ve mentioned, you haven’t factored in the time differences.
Also, if you look at Secunia, there are more advisories for IE than Firefox, some of them being older than this year. Firefox has it’s problems fixed a lot quicker than IE, which is strange considering Microsoft is such a huge company compared to Mozilla.
Regards
on May 26th, 2005 at 11:35 pm
In my experience, when I scroll through a page on my computer, IE is slow at rendering the different parts of the page compared to Firefox. Plus Firefox supports standards, CSS, PNG, and the rest of the stuff Microsoft was too lazy to implement.
But Elliott Back doesn’t care about that.
on June 4th, 2005 at 11:59 am
You are of course aware that your site (like any other that uses CSS) looks inferior on IE? And that the US Government advises people not to use IE? And that Firefox loads the same page twice as fast as IE? But then since you’re a computer science major you’re looking for a job in the Micro$oft Industry, so presenting the facts isn’t as important as making yourself a M$-lover.
on June 19th, 2005 at 2:19 pm
IE is a “standards-compliant” browser..? I’m still laughing, after reading that 15 minutes ago.
on July 26th, 2005 at 10:34 pm
Thank you to all those of you who actually wrote useful and well-thought-out posts, as opposed to the many who have no form of proof to con, or convince, I suppose, the unbiased net-surfer to join their “side.”
Sort of like Mac vs. Win. Both sides may be correct, and I’m sure that their products have valid applications that the user would find most convenient. But the fact is, most casual readers really DON’T CARE. You like Mac? Well, go ahead then(, you poor incompatible wretch!
. You like Windows? Go ahead. Use it.
And every now and then spout off in your blog about your superior product, just to get under the skin of those who seem to be opposed to you.
You like Firefox? By all means, use it. You like IE? USE IT!
I use Firefox on a Windows computer. There, I said it.
I use IE only for FTP uploads, when I’m not at work or home.
If the shoe fits…
on September 6th, 2005 at 6:21 am
It has been a while since I used IE but I can reply on what I can recall from my IE days.
Microsoft’s Popup Blocking is only available with SP2 for Windows XP. With half the business world still using Windows 2000, that leaves half the business world as SOL. Who knows about the home user.
Microsoft’s Tabbed Browsing as a feature called “”taskbar grouping” in Windows XP is not the same thing. This is like apples and oranges. The only thing in common is the grouping. After that, functionality goes in the way of tabs.
Privacy and Security - Service Pack 2 added numerous improvements to the Internet Explorer. This is true, however the latest and greatest IE has 19 unpatched security flaws with the worst rated as “Highly Critical” where as Firefox has 3 unpatched security flaws with the worst rated as “Less Critical”. (Sources: Secunia - Vulnerability Report - Mozilla Firefox 1.x and Secunia - Vulnerability Report - Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.x) Also, some of IE’s bigger holes are over a year old.
Smarter Search - If you need a Microsoft knowledgebase article on how to configure IE’s search behavior, either it is too complicated for the average user or they don’t even know it exists.
Live Bookmarks - RSS is expected in IE7 under a new name. Since Firefox put it in the browser and people like and want it. It forced Microsoft to upgrade the aged IE 6.
Hassle-Free Downloading - Prompts never bothered me. I can only guess here is that the sooner the download starts, the sooner it is done. I do like the Firefox has a built in download manager. Helps in tracking what was downloaded.
Fits Like a Glove - “Firefox has all the functions you’re used to - Bookmarks, History, Full Screen, Text Zooming,” the functions you first saw in Internet Explorer 6, three years ago. Firefox used to be called Phoenix, as in rising from the ashes of Netscape. Thinking that way, IE got these items from Netscape. They are nothing new and special. basically a tie.
S, M, L or XL-You Choose - Extensions are for the most are a tie. Firefox has the better extension manager, but with fewer extensions. IE has more extensions, but the quality of the manager is limited to the IE version and beyond.
Setup’s a Snap - With Internet Explorer, there’s no setup required. You just have it, with your Windows installation! True and that is how Netscape got killed off. However, Firefox installation is very easy to install. It even lets you transfer IE settings to Firefox at any time.
A Developer’s Best Friend - I am not a developer so I can not comment on this.
You also talk about loading speed. IE should start faster than Firefox because it is already like 3/4 of the way loaded when Windows starts. That is because it is a part of the OS. This is great for starting speed, but terrible for security. For the XP users, add “/Prefetch:1″ to the end of the Target line in the shortcut. This will cut Firefox load times in half.
Your page load test on Google is about a month before the official release of Firefox. Firefox 1.0 came out November 9 2004, your test is October 4, 2004. I would test it again.
I would bet your memory test is the same thing. I would also like to remind you that since IE is a part of the OS, its true memory size is hidden with the OS.
IE is not standards compliant in any any way shape or form compared to Firefox. You can Google that and get hundreds of posts stating that.
IE isn’t exactly free. If you want the latest and greatest IE and you don’t have Windows XP, expect to shell out a few hundred dollars to get the OS to get it. IE7 will be the same way. IE7 for EP is only a subset of the whole thing. If you want the Full IE7, again expect to shell out a few hundred dollars to get the latest OS to get it. Also, the next OS is due out in late 2006.
In short, IE is only a shadow of Firefox. Microsoft wasn’t going to release IE7 until the next OS in late 2006, but because of everything that Firefox has to offer and the number of people switching to it, they had to change plans for IE. Now, Microsoft is releasing a subset of IE7 early to compete and catch up with Firefox. Basically, Firefox is the better product and Microsoft knows it.
on May 18th, 2006 at 6:15 am
Hello, I’m a web developer and I really have to say that firefox with it’s dev extensions (web dev, dom explorer and such) has REALLY helped me. I couldn’t find any of this stuff in IE, and had to bother myself with transparent PNG optimizations for IE.
FF vs IE: 1:0
on February 15th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
shut up